Harvard Political Review: How do you counter the arguments made by extremists, specifically someone like Anjem Choudary, who quote the Koran to justify the killing of non-Muslims?
Hanif Qadir: It is very easy because extremists like him are quoting our holy book without the context or the circumstances of when the verse was revealed. It does sometimes resonate with young men and women that ‘Oh, this is from the Koran,’ but when these young people come to [the Active Change Foundation], we respond by asking them, ‘When was this verse revealed, what were the circumstances behind the revelation, and does it apply today?’
It doesn’t apply today. The thing about Anjem Choudary and people like him is that they are not credible, they’re not legitimate, and they take quotes out of their historical context. And they do attract attention, so it makes life a bit difficult for us at the ACF, but it doesn’t make it impossible.
HPR: When you explain the historical context of certain Koranic verses to people, do they come to understand and accept that these verses are from more than a thousand years ago and are not applicable in modern society?
HQ: It depends upon how much engagement this young man or woman has had with people like Anjem. The greater the level of engagement and the time spent with radical groups, the more difficult our job becomes. If it’s a young man who has met Anjem or someone like him only one or two times, for us that is quite easy. And we back up our argument to that person with evidence, support, and mentoring. But, if the guy has been with Anjem or the likes of him for a number of months or years, it becomes challenging because they are grounded—they are convinced that a radical view is the only way forward.
HPR: In more conservative Muslims communities, how do you deal with the conflict that they might feel exists between some of their beliefs and the modernity of Britain?
HQ: I find that quite easy to handle. There is nowhere in Britain where you are not allowed to practice your faith. In every part of Britain, there are mosques and people are allowed to practice their faith as long as it doesn’t harm others. So my argument to [conservative Muslims] always will be, “If you feel uncomfortable about being a Muslim in Britain, you are not being compelled to live in Britain. You can choose to leave.” And sometimes, if they feel strongly about their views, then I will quote [Koranic] verse to them about emigrating for the sake of Allah to a land where you can feel comfortable practicing your religion. So if you feel you are uncomfortable here, then please your Lord and leave the country.
HPR: Given the degree of radicalization in the West, you have said that we are not winning the War on Terror. What does it look like when we are winning and can it even be won?
HQ: The War on Terror absolutely can be won. I believe wholeheartedly that it can be won. Communities have a role to play in this. We cannot tackle this problem without the backing of the community, and the only thing that will allow that to happen is if the government and its institutions support organizations like the ACF to go into communities and build that collateral. There has to be more participation from young people and from communities in politics, government, and education.
When you start to see young men and women being inspired by people who may not share the same faith as them and celebrating that—feeling respected and privileged even with these differences—that is what winning the War on Terror looks like. This can be done once organizations have effectively reached out to our communities and our young people, with the understanding that the war can be won in a matter of years.
HPR: Do you have any plans to expand ACF’s initiatives to other communities or countries, as you have in Pakistan?
HQ: We know that the Australians, the Swedes, and some other Europeans are interested in our work, but I don’t think that they are interested enough. We’ve talked about coming over and training some of their people to do the kind of work we do, but they need to be a bit more willing and a bit more real about wanting to do something about this problem.
Right now, it seems like there is just a lot of talking, in Europe especially. In the UK, the government is looking at how we can expand our work into other areas in the country, short of opening up additional centers. The government wants us to go and train others to do this work for free. We have to look at how we can sustain ourselves to do that realistically. On the one hand, we have to deliver the work that we set out to do; on the other hand, it’s just impossible to train more people with the resources we have.
HPR: What is your vision for ACF over the next ten years?
HQ: The vision for the organization is for it to become independent of government funding. We need to find our own money, approximately 10 million pounds to survive for the next 15 years. I know, with the team and the experience we have, we can almost eradicate violent extremism from within our communities if we have a free hand and the resources to do the necessary work.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
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