On July 17, 2014, Eric Garner was killed by New York City Police Department officer Daniel Pantaleo, who used a prohibited chokehold on Garner while arresting him. Several months later, a Richmond County grand jury decided not to indict Pantaleo, sparking mass protests. Garner’s last words, “I can’t breathe,” which he repeated 11 times before falling unconscious, became a rallying cry for the Black Lives Matter movement and the movement against police brutality.
After her son was killed, Gwen Carr, Garner’s mother, became an advocate for police reform. She founded the E.R.I.C. Initiative Foundation, a non-profit focused on supporting and empowering youth and families affected by police violence, while simultaneously addressing systemic racism and advocating for criminal justice reform.
Just six years later, on May 25, 2020, George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin who knelt on his neck and back for nearly 10 minutes. Floyd echoed Garner in his dying words: “I can’t breathe.” His death reinvigorated the international movement against police brutality. Selwyn Jones, George Floyd’s uncle, also became an advocate against systemic racism and brutality in the criminal justice system following his nephew’s death. Jones co-founded Hope 929, an organization dedicated to empowering historically disempowered communities.
Prior to their appearance at the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum at the Harvard Kennedy School’s Institute of Politics, Carr and Jones sat down with The Harvard Political Review to discuss their advocacy work and hopes for change in the wake of their family members’ deaths. Carr and Jones visited Harvard as a part of an initiative by the Graduate School of Education to incorporate such issues into schools’ curricula. Their Forum appearance was also a part of a larger effort to advocate for the Medical Civil Rights Act, which would establish a right to emergency medical care during interactions with law enforcement. The bill went under consideration by Massachusetts lawmakers on April 30.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
The Harvard Political Review: Mr. Jones, what was it like to watch your nephew’s death become a part of a national, and even international movement? Do you feel that the movement did him justice?
Selwyn Jones: It was worse on me watching [Gwen Carr’s] son’s death, because I knew mine. And I knew that he came here with something to do, obviously, and I’m doing it, [making] a difference. Because he could have died anywhere, you know. But on May the 25th, 2020, Derek Chauvin was not supposed to go to work, Darnella Frazier never walks her cousin to that store. And all of those things come together so this movement could begin. And then we’re just making it prosper by the things that we’re doing, fighting every day to make a difference and a change for people that are not named George Floyd or Eric Garner.
HPR: Ms. Carr, what was it like watching your son become a part of this movement?
Gwen Carr: Well, it’s actually bittersweet. I’d rather have my son here than for it to be a movement about him. But being that it is what it is. I’m trying to keep his memory alive, I’m trying to keep him relevant. I want to do things for the younger kids, so that they will be safe When they are in the streets. That’s what it’s about. It’s about safety for all people. And if we’re not safe, I think that’s what everyone wants. I don’t care what race or what nationality you are, you want safety in the street,
SJ: You want to live, you want to live.
GC: So this is what my organization is about now, everyone being safe. And I named my organization after my son, but it’s an acronym: the ERIC Initiative Foundation. And the ERIC stands for Eliminating Racism and Inequality Collectively. So we take that, and we build on that by helping young people, showing the young people who think that there is no hope that there is, showing them what they can be, and expanding their horizons and bringing out their talents.
SJ: Never give up, because we want our kids to go to Harvard too.
GC: Exactly, we want to show them that there is more to life than holding a gun or being in a gang.
HPR: You talk about hope. How do you balance this immense loss and grief with hope for the future and working toward change?
GC: My hope is that we — even the grieving mothers and the ones who it hasn’t happened to yet, because you never know when it’s going to happen to you — galvanize and strengthen each other. And going and changing laws, and getting laws passed so that our children will have a better chance. And we know — I know I have gotten a few laws changed in New York — but we know getting laws changed is just some of it. It’s getting them enforced, that’s what makes the difference, and that is what we want to do. We don’t want another mother losing their child in a senseless way like our children were lost. The mothers who come together, these mothers’ children were unarmed. Most of them wasn’t doing anything, some of them was just walking or driving while being Black. And that’s not a crime, and it’s not a death sentence.
SJ: My grief is put into change. Every time I feel bad about [Gwen Carr’s] son, or every time I feel bad about [Dinetta Scott’s] son, I do something. Whether it’s calling and talking to somebody — their son just got killed, or daughter just got killed, or relative just got killed — just to soothe their soul, to show that somebody cares. And a lot of times they don’t get that opportunity of somebody acknowledging [their] son was lost by an unfortunate situation. And we created the foundation so we could spread that word, to make an impact on people’s lives and society and the community.
HPR: What do you think is important for Massachusetts residents to know about the Medical Civil Rights Act?
SJ: There are a plethora of cases that have developed here in Massachusetts in the jails, in the penitentiaries, prisons, that could have been avoided by having the ability to get medical attention. You’re talking six, seven thousand people, you know, over a span of 25 or 30 years that perished because of a misfortunate situation. Because somebody thought they were God, or somebody thought they were a doctor, or they thought that they were a psychiatrist. So you take all of those situations out and just give them an opportunity to live by giving medical attention in a timely fashion.
GC: Another thing I want to say, because we are neglected, in that sense of getting medical [attention]. When we’re asking for medical attention, their defense is “Oh, I thought they were playing.”
GC: But, you know, when someone is asking for help, you give them help. Because in our communities, we’re treated differently. So if we could save lives, if we listen to the apprehended cry, it’s the ones who’s in prisons, the ones who’s being arrested, if we listened to them, a lot of lives would be saved. But a lot of times, we don’t want to listen, you know, the authorities do not want to listen to them.
SJ: Empathy is at an all time low.
GC: Yes, it is at an all time low, because of the communities that we live in, because of our zip codes. Our zip code is where we live, but it shouldn’t determine if we live.
HPR: Thinking more broadly, what kind of systemic change do you hope to see so that no family has to go through something like this again?
GC: The change I want to see is that, as I said before, that we are safe walking in the street, not being targeted, because we as the Black community are always targeted and impacted in the most severe way. And even if they don’t kill us, they hurt us up so bad, or they implicate laws that will hurt, but they’ll say they’re going to help us. Even the menthol ban: they want to do that in the Black communities. They’re not banning all cigarettes, they’re banning menthol cigarettes, which 8% or 9% of the Black community smoke, and saying it’s a good law. If it’s such a good law, ban all cigarettes.
HPR: Mr. Jones, what do you think are the systemic changes that need to happen?
SJ: Communication, conversation, motivating people, and just change. Everybody needs to change their mindset, instead of being [in a] gorilla mindset. And I want to go home, everybody wants to go home. But have empathy, have respect, you know what I’m saying? So just be thoughtful and care, you know?
GC: I think before you can change the minds of people who have that deep-seated prejudice or racism in them, you have to heal their heart.
